Genre

[alg]

Genre as a marketing category!
Publishers and editors do not think about genre the same way authors do. Here's an explanation.



... Now I write an ode to spinach:

spinach,
you
are green
and
i wish i had more
of you than
what I ate
(yum yum yum)
at five in the morning,
dawn
creeping
up
you are
(my sunshine and)
the perfect delivery method
for salt and
garlic.

Comments

[hamadryad11.livejournal.com]

In general I tend to prefer third-person, so I'm sure I'll be fine with it. Thanks for the rec. I'm looking forward to reading something new.

[hamadryad11.livejournal.com]

Great! I will head over there and look for it.

so i am a wimp...

[laast.livejournal.com]

Oh my gosh... I love Nora Roberts..

and after the Red Lily, BLue Delilah, Black Rose (one I never got to)... trilogy... no one can say she is predicatable. I love her writing, loved this trilogy... it's nothing like anything she has ever written before. I thought it was wonderful. It was so good it scared the crap out of me. (I am also a wimp & sleep with the lights on after watching Gohst Hunters). ... anyway... I couldn't bring myself to read the final installment of the trilogy. I was too scared. freaked out really. She had my worst nightmare written right out there for me, and it was phenominal...It was that good and that scary that I couldn't finish it. It really is a compliment to how good she is... really, I couldn't read Black Rose because the other two were so good, and I had no idea what to expect. lol...

Me Again Marge... *ps don't use caption html - it whacks it outta shape*

[the-lady-m.livejournal.com]

***That was an entirely fake plot - to try to explain the "concept" that there might be elements of different genres, with my odd sense of humor. LMAO - I just wanted to point that out. I don't know if I'd be bold enough to post my own real plots queries in your blog. As methinks that would be utterly rude.***

(So Anna, I can't answer the why questions unless I want to get really silly. I will, if it'll make your teeth feel any better. I like folks to laugh. But if that won't work - Me passes You a bottle of percocets and a cup of coffee.)

But this Comment:

The most common response to an editor or agent saying, "Your book is actually about X," is the author immediately saying, "No, it's not, you just don't understand!"

In that case, the author needs to (a) take a step back and learn some manners, and (b) rethink the way s/he is presenting the book. If an editor doesn't "understand" what the book is about well enough to judge its genre, based on the author's description, that is not a failure on the editor's part.

Does that make sense?

OK - That makes sense.

Do editors and authors usually work well together? Or are there usually a lot of primadonnas on either side?

Do the agents work more as middleman between the author and editor - or does it depend entirely on the agent/editor relationship? Or is it usually editor/author only?

In my opinion an editor should be able to request whatever they want... They are the ones ordering the item. *Like ordering at a nice restaurant... You want what you want - not what the chef looks at you and decides that you want.* They are the ones who will make it or break it - and the writer is but the best chef presenting what they hope will be a very tasty morsel.

Immediately apologizes for asking the flurry of questions - goes back to corner and whimpers... :P

Huntergal - I thank you way much. Very way much. (Alaskan lingo). That was extremely helpful and it boiled it down easily to one thinkable line for me:

where in the bookstore it's shelved will determine your readers

Rock on!

You guys are very helpful and thank you for your patience with me. I'm a very curious person --- you know... the ADHD kid in the back of the class that always has her hand raised - with the big glasses and seriously off the wall questions, that probably only make sense to her... :P

[alg.livejournal.com]

Hey, thanks. I've actually seen everything you've capped, by which I mean I've seen almost everything Callum has done *ever*. Hee.

[alg.livejournal.com]

My opinion is the same as your whole group's! I think that most people can offer valid critiques on any project, to a point. There are many conventions that people who don't participate in a given genre will miss that are important to the context of the book. Sometimes that means their commentary will be almost worthless -- i.e. if you have a group of people immersed in contemporary mystery novels trying to critique a regency romance.

However, I think it's always helpful for writers to get an outside perspective -- someone who says, "This doesn't work. Is this a particular trope of romance? Why are you using it here? What is it supposed to accomplish?" can almost always help the writer. THe helpfulness is not as much their critique (of "this doesn't work for me") but rather in the questions they pose which are specifically designed to help the writer figure out why part A works and part B doesn't make sense.

I particularly think that groups who all write the exact same thing inevitably end up acquiring each other's flaws rather than helping each other succeed. I've seen quite a few manuscripts come out of some people in particular writing groups that look the same and have the same errors, to the point where I have suggested that the try a new writing group. Ten women in their middle age with teenage children getting together to critique each other's contemporary romance manuscripts about women in their late 20s and men in their early 30s (or wahtever the genre/trappings are) are, I think, too similar in too many ways to do each other much good.

Does that make sense?

[alg.livejournal.com]

Um, I don't often care that much about stuff like spellcheck in livejournal comments. People post in the heat of the moment! There is a flurry! Typos happen!

I did get an email notification, but I don't remember what your original post was. Something about regencys and how to pitch your particular fantasy of manners set in a made up world? If you want to bounce that off the people here, you should post again.

[alg.livejournal.com]

Hey, thanks! Happy to entertain the masses. :)

[alg.livejournal.com]

The feed for Miss Snark that I sub to is here:
http://syndicated.livejournal.com/miss_snark/profile

Livejournal should have told you that when you tried to make a new one! Bad LJ, no cookie!

Re: Me Again Marge... *ps don't use caption html - it whacks it outta shape*

[alg.livejournal.com]

I think the problem *is* that you made up a synopsis. Pick a real one and I think we'd have better luck.

Do editors and authors usually work well together? Or are there usually a lot of primadonnas on either side?

Do the agents work more as middleman between the author and editor - or does it depend entirely on the agent/editor relationship? Or is it usually editor/author only?

This all depends entirely on the people involved. Some agents are very hands-on. Some agents are very hands-off. Some agents don't need to involve themselves in the day to day editorial aspects of publishing. Others want to be CC'd on everything.

Some authors are prima donnas.

Most prima donna editors do not last long in the business.

It is rare for an author and editor who don't get along to work on more than one book together -- the author or author's agent will ask that the author's work be assigned to a different editor (or the editor will!).

In my opinion an editor should be able to request whatever they want...

That doesn't mean an author should give it to them!

I can't speak for other editors -- although I will do a post about this in a few weeks and maybe the editors who read this will contribute their thoughts -- but I try very hard to make sure that my relationships with my authors are balanced. Most of my authors write because they love it, because they have stories to tell -- and that means that my job as an editor, as I have said before, is to figure out what story they want to tell, what story they are telling, and how to make the two come together in a way that will engage a reader.

[neutronjockey.livejournal.com]

People like categories. Categories make us feel safe. They help us know that we are getting what we want. Most people do not buy books wanting to be shocked or appalled or surprised.

YES.

It is a sad fact that the majority of people no longer are willing to experiment. Books are expensive. I don't know about you, but I don't have seven dollars to spend on an author I've never heard of if I don't have the faintest clue where to slot the book in my head.

YES.

Here's the story: I say to Waldenbooks, "This book doesn't have a genre." Walden says, "So what are we supposed to do with it?" I say, "I dunno." Walden says, "How about we just skip this title and buy twice as many of that romance novel?

And OMFG. YES!

Since my departure from the Navy I've been slaving amongst the bottom feeding trolls in the weekly season of avarice (see: retail) at Ye Olde Borders. Customers only see two things (and keep in mind I'm talking your average reader, not an expert reader and not a writer/reader <--- each of those creatures shops differently); these two things are: 1) big sign noting genre and 2) bright!shiny!cover!
That's it.
Really.
I've tried using the words 'sub-genre' and 'cross-genre' while attempting to assist a customer and I get a blank stare.
Customer: I'm looking for a new mystery book for my husband.
Me: What kind of mysteries does your husband like to read?
Customer: *blank stare* He likes mysteries.
Me: Do you know the author's name he's currently reading?
Customer: No, I don't remember, but it's got a shiny blue cover.
Me: Okay, is he more of a crime and forensics guy or more of a tech guy?
Customer: Oh he loves CSI.
Me: Okay, I know a number of really good mysteries based on real cased studies with enough forensic geekery to keep any CSI buff happy...I'll show you to them.
Customer: I think he'll like this one!
Me: Ma'am, we're in fantasy/sci-fi and that's Terry Brooks.
Customer: That's okay I'll buy this one for him.
Me: (*ScrubsMeta*) Look Barbie...

In short form: I totally agree: don't sweat the genre.

In another form: don't you think a savvy writer, one who writes for intent of being published should keep their eye on the market trend as to what their genre is doing and what cross and sub-genres are hot? I mean, if writing is your business, don't you have to give in a bit to make a living?

-=Jeff=-

[itshardtosay.livejournal.com]

And why would I think you hadn't? You're crazy! ;)

I hope your mouth is feeling better. xoxo

[alg.livejournal.com]

don't you think a savvy writer, one who writes for intent of being published should keep their eye on the market trend as to what their genre is doing and what cross and sub-genres are hot? I mean, if writing is your business, don't you have to give in a bit to make a living?

Yes and no. The way to keep track of what your genre is doing is to go join your genre's writers' organization and watch what is being *sold* -- not what is being offered on the shelves. The shelves are two years out of date!

As I said in another comment, (at least) 99% of the time, a writer's genre is pretty easily nailed. 50% of that 99% of the time, the writer is the person making it more complicated, because s/he desperately wants to be a unique snowflake.

[ali-wildgoose.livejournal.com]

CURSES.

Ah well, a little more Snark in the world never hurt anyone ;}

[bachsoprano.livejournal.com]

Makes perfect sense and confirms some things that I had been wondering about - essentially, that it's not cut-and-dry. I especially appreciate your comment about the groups that have writers all writing the same thing - there's always a danger of homogenization, isn't there?

And, I like the idea of posing questions - I do this sometimes, but I think I'll make great use of them in future critiques.

Thanks again for taking time to help me out with this! I know that several members of my critique group have read your post with great interest and as a result, we've got some very healthy discussions going on, rather that squabbling. It's always great to get the insight of someone inside the biz...:)

[marycatone.livejournal.com]

Your ode to spinach is my new favorite poem. I have to go make some RIGHT NOW!

[the-lady-m.livejournal.com]

*Unique Snowflake*

Can I just be a Unique Flake?

Thank you! and: May I ask a quick favor?

[(Anonymous)]

I've been reading your blog for a while now and hope that I am not overstepping my bounds with this request. I am an English writing major and am currently taking a communications course. For said course, I have to do a presentation and the topic I've chosen is "Communicating Through Fiction." I've developed a five-question survey and am wondering if you would mind filling it out. Either way, thank you for your time, and thank you for such a helpful blog. I appreciate your willingness to do this.

Sincerely,
Jess
kaluna_rain_caller[at]yahoo.com

[(Anonymous)]

Spinach
you are green
and I am glad Anna loves you
for I don't.
At all.
Even with salt or garlic.

Cie

:) Hope the teeth are feeling better.

[alg.livejournal.com]

Spinach
I will eat
all
of
you
Even Cie's
portions
Especially with
salt
and
garlic

Thanks, darlin!

[ambyr.livejournal.com]

Here's the story: I say to Waldenbooks, "This book doesn't have a genre." Walden says, "So what are we supposed to do with it?" I say, "I dunno." Walden says, "How about we just skip this title and buy twice as many of that romance novel?" I say, "All right." Then your book nets, oh, 6,000 mass market copies, and you don't ever sell another book again. The end..

Heh, if anyone's curious, this is equally true of academic books. . .if an author send me a prospectus listing the ten wildly different disciplines that he thinks will clamor to adopt his book in their classrooms, I will immediately (and generally correctly) interpret it as having no classroom potential at all.

*Sniffle*

[the-lady-m.livejournal.com]

Are you coming back to post - or have the evil tooth demons vortexed you out of live journal?

*g*

Hope you're feeling better.

Lady M

Re: *Sniffle*

[alg.livejournal.com]

I don't usually post all that often -- I have a day job. *g* I usually post once or twice per month -- this crazy posting three times per week thing won't last. :)

[southernwriter.livejournal.com]

I’ve just discovered your blog, so I’m way behind, but I’m fascinated and must ask a question. First, however, I want to thank you for your hard work here. I’ve never read anything that so plainly explains what it’s like to be on your side of the desk. I’m seeing my manuscript in a whole new way. I am an instant fan! Bravo!

My question is about genre. Another author told me what I write is called woo woo. I had never heard of it, so I Googled, but came up with nothing. Have you heard of this, and if so, can you define it for me? Is it considered as derogatory in the publishing industry as it sounds to my ear?
I catagorize my ms differently depending upon who I’m querying. For one agent or publisher, I think I called it metaphysical, for another a paranormal romance (which I see now was a terrible mistake), and yet another, I categorized it as women’s fiction with a romantic paranormal twist.

If I query an agent who is looking for “quirky, unusual, eclectic,” and call my ms woo woo, a) are they going to know what I'm talking about? And b) am I going to have to change my name and start writing something different if I ever hope to be published?

(It’s too long to submit to Tor, but you might personally like it because it’s full of Tarot and astrology. Wink.)

[alg.livejournal.com]

itâ™s full of Tarot and astrology.

"Woo woo" is often a term for books with New Age content -- it sounds like whoever you were talking with meant New Age. There's not a big market for New Age books, unfortunately, but there are some small presses, I am sure, that publish it.