You mentioned you were going to have a free day in Atlanta. I don't know much about Atlanta, but I live in middle Tennessee and have been to Chattanooga about a million times (about an hour's drive from Atlanta). If you have a car and don't mind wrestling with Atlanta's terrible traffic, the Tennessee Aquarium in Chattanooga is really quite fantastic. If you're into aquariums, I recommend it.
I saw a link to this earlier today and bookmarked it -- I'm very glad I did. It was very interesting reading in addition to being informative. Thanks so much for taking the time to write it.
I remember walking by the smoking area about halfway through the encore pitch, thinking to myself, "I've just missed something really good." In June, you'll just have to do it again, dthon.
Oh thanks for this, I always wondered the ins and outs... and I so would have taken the manuscript with me not knowing any better LOL. This is so going in my memories. Double thanks
You've never heard of me, and probably won't for at least another couple of years, but I want to offer anonymous thanks for this fantastic infodump. (Okay, I know that's the wrong term, since infodumps don't generally keep people sitting on the edge of their chair hanging on every word... but you get the idea.)
I got directed over here through another link, and this is wonderful advice. Sometimes I think the business side of this whole writing game is more challenging than writing the book in the first place.
I think the business side of stuff is often a mystery to people, and they find it impenetrable -- whereas you know you can write a book, you've just done it! But I can demystify almost any part of the industry/process for almost anyone, and that's a start. :)
This is an outstanding post. Would you consider permitting me to link to this post from my main website? I'd love to be able to add this to my links section of writer's advice as it is some of the most detailed-- and honest-- information I've seen on the topic.
Thank you in advance for any time you spend replying to my post.
As it says in the text of the post, you're more than welcome to link it anywhere as long as you don't reproduce the text. Thanks! I'm glad you found this helpful. :)
I don't write what you buy, but I found you through Miss Snark and I thought your advice was tremendous for writers of any genre. Great site and thanks for taking this kind of time to inform.
Thanks for posting this. I'd be the stumbling, nervous, this-is-my-first-pitch person, so these are very relevant tips for me. I'm also going to link it and that means it'll be up on my website in a month to help others who might browse there. With luck, your efforts here will reduce the number of idiots you see :).
On the other hand, I'd think (from my own experiences) the warning to be nice is just as important and a side element of not being an idiot. You never know who's listening and you might not even fully comprehend who you are exchanging words with, whether at a con or elsewhere.
And I can think of at least one writer who could make The Robot Cheerleader Wars a winner :).
Cool! I am not worried about seeing idiots -- what I really want is to put people's minds at rest about how complicated this is. Those who have observed that it can be boiled down into four bits of advice -- "Don't be an idiot. Mind your manners. Remember your common sense. Relax" -- are totally right. It's just the trappings of society that make things more complicated.
Thanks for this great info. (Have you thought about presenting at a first-day session at the RWA conference?)
What do you think about pitching a reformulated manuscript that was received well the first time around (positive rejection on a full)? We're talking complete rewrite here, not just an edit and a tweak.
RWA has tons and tons of people presenting on stuff like this -- I'm sure they already have something similar scheduled. Additionally, this is the kind of thing that individual chapters should be going over with their members to prepare them.
Re: your question about pitching a ms...
Personally, unless I have requested changes, once I have rejected something, I don't want to see it again. I want the author to move on and write a new project and give him/herself some distance from the first project. Other editors may feel differently.
I've been kicking myself for not going to Writercon, but I think I've just learned how to write a far, far better query letter. Thank you for putting this up.
Well, hey, conventions aren't the only way to get your book in front of an editor. I know that Tor takes unsolicited submissions -- the guidelines are on our website -- and I think some other houses do too.
I appreciate all the info. I just wish there was some way I could manage a perfect pitch and come off smooth and sophisticated (don't we all?), because I speak/behave differently from the way I write. Too many bad habits ingrained from working with gamers. I get nervous about writing query letters, too, but the pressure is less when I don't have to worry about impressing someone in person. I hadn't even realized that index cards were an option. Until you mentioned that, I was freaked out about having to memorize something in order to not sound like a dork, and then forgetting my lines due to nerves. I actually did a practice pitch in front of some classmates at the Odyssey Writing Workshop ... I'm sure I gave everyone a good idea of how NOT to pitch!
I don't think you should worry about being smooth and sophisticated -- editors just wanna party! Seriously, we are a very relaxed bunch. And the editor who rejects your book because you were nervous is probably not the one you want to work with anyway, right?
Again the comment that made me check the chair and floor to make sure I still had a dry area - was the one about the "gospel". Even a day later and I'm still checking!
I read a ton of Tor Books, and it is a pleasure to meet someone behind the scenes. It allows me a glance of the work that goes into the production of such a thing.
I can write fantasy and now you've given me insight enough to feel the competitve edge and interest in persuing that avenue of literature. There aren't many people who can make me feel like that - so consider it a major compliment.
Not only that, you've inspiration because what you've written has made the world seem a little less complicated and more professional than I had imagined.
I've been working on a press kit for Writer's Weekend and you've just given me something I've been looking for: the difference between WW and other cons. Where else do you get personal attention from a conference organizer who will help you tailor your pitch to the editor/agent of your choice?
Also? good food for vegans.
Is it okay if I link to this for the WW website? Also, I'm doing a workshop at an RWA con and I'd love to quote from it, if I may...
Darlin', I have seen this on two lists so far in the past few days. Well said. Well done. Just another feather in the cap of my favorite editor to stalk. ;-) Even if she NEVER answers email. LOL
Pointed this way by myriad69, and I'd like to thank you for this. I'm just starting to wade into these waters and any and all advice is appreciated, even to a dabbler like me.
I'd like to echo what another commenter said, a pitch is a pitch, as someone who is looking to move and needs to switch jobs in the very near future, all this advice applies there too; I suspect writing/publishing is just as close knit as teaching can be.
Thanks for the advice -- there certainly are some gems in there.
My question is regarding agents, and what you said abour pitching anyway. I'm not sure if I want to have an agent or not. If I pitch/query Tor unagented and I get turned down, does that mean that if I do get an agent he/she cannot try to submit my work there? If I would have any advantage with an agent, I wouldn't want to screw it up by bombing my own attept :S
Thanks for the great post! It was so informative that I now realize I have made at least two mistakes in pitch letters. Oh, my. How embarrassing. ::pinkface:: Thank you, again.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-02-24 12:46 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-02-24 03:49 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-02-24 01:08 am (UTC)You mentioned you were going to have a free day in Atlanta. I don't know much about Atlanta, but I live in middle Tennessee and have been to Chattanooga about a million times (about an hour's drive from Atlanta). If you have a car and don't mind wrestling with Atlanta's terrible traffic, the Tennessee Aquarium in Chattanooga is really quite fantastic. If you're into aquariums, I recommend it.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-02-24 03:50 am (UTC)There's also the Georgia Aquarium.
From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2006-02-25 03:44 am (UTC) - Expand(no subject)
Date: 2006-02-24 02:51 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-02-24 03:51 am (UTC)Great advice!
From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2006-02-24 10:20 pm (UTC) - ExpandRe: Great advice!
From:(no subject)
Date: 2006-02-24 05:18 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-02-25 06:48 am (UTC)(And, maybe with some new material!)
-Dthon
(no subject)
Date: 2006-02-24 09:33 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-02-25 02:27 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-02-24 01:43 pm (UTC)BOOKMARKED with a vengeance.
Cheers!
(no subject)
Date: 2006-02-25 02:28 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-02-24 02:30 pm (UTC)Thank you!
(no subject)
Date: 2006-02-25 02:29 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-02-24 02:32 pm (UTC)Some mysterious but dashingly handsome fellow has forwarded this link to Miss Snark, and she posted a link to this post.
Prepare yourself for the hordes.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-02-25 02:29 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-02-24 03:10 pm (UTC)"You write boring crap. Stop writing boring crap."
(no subject)
Date: 2006-02-25 02:29 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-02-24 03:23 pm (UTC)Thank you in advance for any time you spend replying to my post.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-02-24 03:24 pm (UTC)Great advice
Date: 2006-02-24 03:37 pm (UTC)Kathie at housewifecafe.com
Re: Great advice
Date: 2006-02-25 02:29 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-02-24 05:09 pm (UTC)On the other hand, I'd think (from my own experiences) the warning to be nice is just as important and a side element of not being an idiot. You never know who's listening and you might not even fully comprehend who you are exchanging words with, whether at a con or elsewhere.
And I can think of at least one writer who could make The Robot Cheerleader Wars a winner :).
Cheers,
Margaret
(no subject)
Date: 2006-02-25 02:33 pm (UTC)Thanks, and a question!
Date: 2006-02-24 05:13 pm (UTC)Thanks for this great info. (Have you thought about presenting at a first-day session at the RWA conference?)
What do you think about pitching a reformulated manuscript that was received well the first time around (positive rejection on a full)? We're talking complete rewrite here, not just an edit and a tweak.
Thanks again! T
Re: Thanks, and a question!
Date: 2006-02-25 02:34 pm (UTC)Re: your question about pitching a ms...
Personally, unless I have requested changes, once I have rejected something, I don't want to see it again. I want the author to move on and write a new project and give him/herself some distance from the first project. Other editors may feel differently.
Fan
Date: 2006-02-24 09:00 pm (UTC)Deperate Writer
http://desperatewriter.blogspot.com
(no subject)
Date: 2006-02-25 02:35 pm (UTC)words to live by
Date: 2006-02-25 12:07 am (UTC)I've been kicking myself for not going to Writercon, but I think I've just learned how to write a far, far better query letter. Thank you for putting this up.
Re: words to live by
Date: 2006-02-25 02:36 pm (UTC)Ack! The pressure!
Date: 2006-02-25 05:44 am (UTC)~Abby Goldsmith
Re: Ack! The pressure!
Date: 2006-02-25 02:36 pm (UTC)Nice...
Date: 2006-02-25 02:46 pm (UTC)I read a ton of Tor Books, and it is a pleasure to meet someone behind the scenes. It allows me a glance of the work that goes into the production of such a thing.
I can write fantasy and now you've given me insight enough to feel the competitve edge and interest in persuing that avenue of literature. There aren't many people who can make me feel like that - so consider it a major compliment.
Not only that, you've inspiration because what you've written has made the world seem a little less complicated and more professional than I had imagined.
Thanks.
Lady M
Re: Nice...
Date: 2006-02-25 02:48 pm (UTC)"You've inspiration" ick! Try more like - "You've given me inspiration"
Sigh - fingers typing faster than my brain again. :P
Re: Nice...
From:Very helpful
Date: 2006-02-25 08:25 pm (UTC)Thanks,
Sandra, who will also be in Atlanta for RWA
Re: Very helpful
Date: 2006-02-25 11:01 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-02-26 03:43 pm (UTC)Also? good food for vegans.
Is it okay if I link to this for the WW website? Also, I'm doing a workshop at an RWA con and I'd love to quote from it, if I may...
(no subject)
Date: 2006-02-26 10:50 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-02-27 12:26 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-02-28 03:06 am (UTC)I'd like to echo what another commenter said, a pitch is a pitch, as someone who is looking to move and needs to switch jobs in the very near future, all this advice applies there too; I suspect writing/publishing is just as close knit as teaching can be.
Thank you.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-02-28 05:57 pm (UTC)Glad I found this :)
Shalla
(no subject)
Date: 2006-02-28 08:48 pm (UTC)Nice Advice... a question though
Date: 2006-03-01 03:05 am (UTC)My question is regarding agents, and what you said abour pitching anyway. I'm not sure if I want to have an agent or not. If I pitch/query Tor unagented and I get turned down, does that mean that if I do get an agent he/she cannot try to submit my work there? If I would have any advantage with an agent, I wouldn't want to screw it up by bombing my own attept :S
Thanks again!
(no subject)
Date: 2006-03-08 11:23 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-03-09 12:57 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-03-11 09:12 pm (UTC)