alg: (Default)
anna genoese ([personal profile] alg) wrote2006-03-17 01:59 pm

Genre

Genre as a marketing category!
Publishers and editors do not think about genre the same way authors do. Here's an explanation.



... Now I write an ode to spinach:
spinach,
you
are green
and
i wish i had more
of you than
what I ate
(yum yum yum)
at five in the morning,
dawn
creeping
up
you are
(my sunshine and)
the perfect delivery method
for salt and
garlic.

[identity profile] itshardtosay.livejournal.com 2006-03-17 07:07 pm (UTC)(link)
I need to go back and read this entry, but I wanted to leave a quick comment to say thank you. I have had a string of forgetting and putting Miss Snark's syndication on my friends list was one of them.

Checkmark! Gold Star! Yay, Anna!

p.s. in case you missed it, CKR 'caps in my journals.
kate_nepveu: sleeping cat carved in brown wood (Default)

[personal profile] kate_nepveu 2006-03-17 07:14 pm (UTC)(link)
When I read Point of Honour by Madeleine Robins, I am reading a mystery novel; others are reading a novel of alternate history about a woman P.I.

And you are all reading an absolutely kick-ass book. (With a kick-ass sequel that should not be read first, because it will spoil the first one!)

I keep trying to review it and flailing because I feel like I can't do it justice. Nevertheless: kick-ass novel that is *truly* Austen-meets-noir, with all the implications thereof there on the page.

[identity profile] alg.livejournal.com 2006-03-17 07:17 pm (UTC)(link)
Hahaha, yes, I know all about it! [livejournal.com profile] pnh edited the first one, and I edited the second. *cuddles [livejournal.com profile] madrobins* They really are terrific books -- I am so glad you enjoyed them!
kate_nepveu: sleeping cat carved in brown wood (Default)

[personal profile] kate_nepveu 2006-03-17 07:18 pm (UTC)(link)
Yup--I know you know, but I just want everyone else to know too. =>

[identity profile] jaylake.livejournal.com 2006-03-17 07:30 pm (UTC)(link)
You rule. Thank you for the extended effort at giving us all better perspective.

[identity profile] alg.livejournal.com 2006-03-17 07:31 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm only doing it so that I can see how many different ways you can come up with to tell me I'm awesome.

Hee.

No, really -- thanks! I know I say it over and over again, but it makes me really happy to know that I am helping people understand this stuff a little better.

Hunter's Moon

(Anonymous) 2006-03-17 07:32 pm (UTC)(link)
Let's use Hunter's Moon as an example. This is a book by Cathy Clamp and C. T. Adams. When it was sent to me by the agent, she did not say, "This is an SF novel" or "This is a shapeshifter novel" -- she said that this was a novel sent to her by another one of her clients who just happened to be Laurell K. Hamilton. Laurell had loved the book.

When I read it, I loved it too. It's the story of a man named Tony who is a Mafia assassin. He's been turned into a werewolf. He's lost track of the days. It's the full moon. There's a woman, there's a lot of money, and there's a lot of gunfire.


I have to disagree with you on this. I read "Hunter's Moon" and would only give it a C or average score. The main reason is that it was way too schizo for me. It's all over the place. First, it's about a woman who wants to be assasinated. Then, there's a romance. Then, the Mob gets involved. And oh yeah, the hero's a werewolf too. It's a mish-mash of everything.

I love books that mix genres (Jim Butcher's "Harry Dresden" series is a great example). But I thought "Hunter's Moon" was trying to be everything to everybody. One of the subplots needed to be taken out.

[identity profile] bachsoprano.livejournal.com 2006-03-17 07:33 pm (UTC)(link)
Thanks very much for this! The writing group I belong to has been having rather heated discussions regarding this very issue (although more in regards to critiquing outside of one's genre)...I've referred them here to read your post (I hope that's okay...) - insight from someone inside the business is invaluable for those of us on the outside (but wanting to get inside!).

Thanks again!

[identity profile] alg.livejournal.com 2006-03-17 07:35 pm (UTC)(link)
I'd be interested in hearing more about the debate re: critiquing outside one's genre. I have mixed feelings on the subject, and I'd love to know what other people are saying.

And also you are welcome!

Re: Hunter's Moon

[identity profile] alg.livejournal.com 2006-03-17 07:36 pm (UTC)(link)
I did say that publishing is a subjective industry, didn't I?

This is a perfect example of that.

[identity profile] tharain.livejournal.com 2006-03-17 07:36 pm (UTC)(link)
Thank you! =D Once again, sent to my Memories.

[identity profile] susanw.livejournal.com 2006-03-17 07:37 pm (UTC)(link)
When I read Point of Honour by Madeleine Robins, I am reading a mystery novel; others are reading a novel of alternate history about a woman P.I.

I feel strange admitting this, since it's such a subtle, nebulous thing, but the friend who told me I should read Point of Honour just said, "It's a Regency mystery." So I wasn't expecting the alternate history element, and it threw me out of the story, because I'd been looking forward to a mystery set either in the author's best approximation of the actual historical period, or else the consensus frothy alterna-Regency many romances are set in. I need to go back and try it again, because I could tell it was well-written--it just wasn't what I was expecting to read.

Which I guess just goes to show genre is all about expectations--if I'd known going in that I was reading a genre-bender instead of a straightforward historical mystery, I'd have responded differently to the book. And that's probably a cautionary tale for an aspiring genre-bender like me (I'm somewhere on the border between historical romance, historical fiction, and the military historical).

[identity profile] alg.livejournal.com 2006-03-17 07:37 pm (UTC)(link)
You're welcome! Thanks for reading. :)

[identity profile] stevenagy.livejournal.com 2006-03-17 07:39 pm (UTC)(link)
And when
you stick
in my teeth
on March 17
all I need
is a drink

Nice post again.
Happy St. Patrick's Day. :-)

[identity profile] alg.livejournal.com 2006-03-17 07:39 pm (UTC)(link)
Hee, I think you just replied to your own comment!

This is partially what I am talking about -- people like categories, and they like their expectations, and it is very difficult to snap out of expectations once they are there.

That makes it hard on writers, too -- harder, I think, than anyone usually thinks about. Take Nora Roberts: her fans want the same thing over and over again, and buy her books because they know what they are going to get... and yet then they complain to each other that she's become predictable. How unfair to her!

[identity profile] alg.livejournal.com 2006-03-17 07:41 pm (UTC)(link)
we prefer
"publishing traditionalists"
to
al
co
hol
ics

...hee. Happy SPD yourself!

[identity profile] deviantauthor.livejournal.com 2006-03-17 07:41 pm (UTC)(link)
You're much more entertaining to read than Miss Snark, painkillers, spinach and time of day or such things not affecting your posts. *g*

So when is The Robot Cheerleader Wars by Samantha Carter coming out?

*runs away to hide*

[identity profile] stevenagy.livejournal.com 2006-03-17 07:43 pm (UTC)(link)
As long as it's got a head on it today. :-)

[identity profile] alg.livejournal.com 2006-03-17 07:43 pm (UTC)(link)
Hey. No dissing Miss Snark in my comments. I find her extremely entertaining, and I find myself bordering on tedious. *g* And yet we are in the same genre! Oh, the woe of the industry.


*steadfastly ignores your question about Samantha Carter*

Thank you again!

[identity profile] aberrantvirtue.livejournal.com 2006-03-17 07:45 pm (UTC)(link)
Genre is one of those things where I feel like I should understand it, but then I look at my stories and I just get confused. (I don't have a snowflake problem so much as I'm just bad at taxonomy.)

This was pretty enlightening, and I already feel like I have a better grasp.

[identity profile] susanwrites.livejournal.com 2006-03-17 07:46 pm (UTC)(link)
I think you're a must-read too! Thanks for saying so much that needs saying.

[identity profile] tharain.livejournal.com 2006-03-17 07:46 pm (UTC)(link)
I will, and I really appreciate your solution to my dilemma. I'll probably modify and use that line. If I ever finish the damn thing.

[identity profile] bachsoprano.livejournal.com 2006-03-17 07:46 pm (UTC)(link)
Well....


One group of people feel that we (the members of the writing group) can offer valid critiques on any genre. A second group seems to feel that we can offer valid critiques on any genre to a point, but there are conventions within certain genres that someone that doesn't actively read the genre might not understand. And, a third group feels that one should not critique outside their genre.

My own feeling is that a good story is a good story, and I can comment on that (hopefully!). But, if I'm preparing a manuscript for submission, it's extra helpful to get insight from someone "in the know". However...often my "in the know" folks are just people that like to read and not always fellow writers (target audience types).

Any opinions you might offer (if you're comfortable with that, of course) would be great as this issue has really divided an otherwise happy and healthy writing group.

[identity profile] elvesforeyes.livejournal.com 2006-03-17 07:46 pm (UTC)(link)
Very informative. Very spinachee. Yessums, mmm.

Genre is always an interesting study. I enjoyed the fact that China Mieville referred to his writing as "new weird". I'd love to see a section called that in a bookstore!

Re: Thank you again!

[identity profile] alg.livejournal.com 2006-03-17 07:48 pm (UTC)(link)
Hey, a better grasp is great!

Half the time, editors go into meetings and say, "This is a mystery," and someone in sales will say, "Let's put 'novel' on the spine and sell it as a mystery to B&N but as fiction to WalMart" and someone in marketing will say "Oh, and let's sell it as 'women's fiction' to Target! Good idea!" and the editors just sip their coffee and are happy that people are buying the books at all.

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