(no subject)
Apr. 24th, 2006 01:42 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
algWhat happened earlier with my mail made me think of two things:
(1) We need interns for the fall (Sept. - Dec.) and spring (Jan. - June). People who want to be interns should go look here. You must be receiving school credit in order to intern with us. Yes, it sucks. No, we can't waive that rule for you. Sorry.
(2) All the questions people have about readers.
A reader is someone, usually freelance, who is hired to read submissions and give us "reader reports". A reader report is a summary of the book, and a bit of critique. This can range from a three page rant on the ridiculousness of the characters, to a succinct three lines.
This is a job we're asked about a lot. People send in their resumes and offer to read mss for us. We rarely hire strangers to do this work here at Tor, though. We have a lot of ex-interns and a lot of freelance people, all of whom we know and like and trust.
Trust is the most important word there. If someone is going to read a manuscript for us, we need to know that this person understands genre conventions, understands writing, understands what we're looking for -- etc.
Most of the reader reports we get look like this:
...or they look like this:
Frankly, most of the reader reports tell us that the writing just isn't good enough to be competitve with the other stuff we're publishing, not to mention the stuff that's selling the best in its particular genre.
Unless someone is an author we're already working with, chances are good that a full ms. is going to get sent off to a reader. Some editors use them more than others, of course. The bare truth is that editors have a lot of freaking things to read, and those things are more important than submissions.
Yes, we value submissions. That is how we find new authors to publish. But we really do have to focus our energies on the stuff we have under contract already, the stuff we're going to use to make money for our company. Readers are really helpful as sifters. We have so many submissions -- forget the slush for a second. Just looking around my own office, I have more than twenty full manuscripts that I requested! Other editors have more (some have fewer), but either way -- I can't read all of those within a month of when I requested them and edit the five novels on my desk and do deals for two more books and -- well, etc.
Here's how the process generally works: editor requests ms., and it arrives, and she realizes that it is pretty much the worst timing ever, and she's never going to read it within even three months. However, this can right now go one of two ways: editor reads first few pages and realizes that the ms. sucks anyway, or editor reads first few pages and realizes that it might actually be good.
If it's the former, she flips through the ms. to make sure that the prose sucks all the way through, or that the characters really do stay boring -- and let me tell you, I have been doing this for more than six years already, and my first instinct is pretty much always right. Sometimes books that I've rejected get picked up by other editors and published to great success -- and yet, when I see them in bookstores and flip through them (or buy and read them)... I still dislike them and think they're bad. So make of that what you will.
If the latter happens, the editor tends to send the book to a reader. If the reader recommends a second read, the editor will read the ms.; if the reader recommends rejection, the editor will flip through to see if the reader is on target (some readers include citations in their reader reports as proof) and then... make their own decision.
My readers tend to be right on target. I've sent manuscripts to readers that I've bought, and ones that I've rejected. It isn't an indication of how interested editors are in the project -- it's an indication of how busy they are with books that are already under contract.
In general.
Your mileage may vary.
(Editors reading this, feel free to jump in with your own process.)
(1) We need interns for the fall (Sept. - Dec.) and spring (Jan. - June). People who want to be interns should go look here. You must be receiving school credit in order to intern with us. Yes, it sucks. No, we can't waive that rule for you. Sorry.
(2) All the questions people have about readers.
A reader is someone, usually freelance, who is hired to read submissions and give us "reader reports". A reader report is a summary of the book, and a bit of critique. This can range from a three page rant on the ridiculousness of the characters, to a succinct three lines.
This is a job we're asked about a lot. People send in their resumes and offer to read mss for us. We rarely hire strangers to do this work here at Tor, though. We have a lot of ex-interns and a lot of freelance people, all of whom we know and like and trust.
Trust is the most important word there. If someone is going to read a manuscript for us, we need to know that this person understands genre conventions, understands writing, understands what we're looking for -- etc.
Most of the reader reports we get look like this:
Romantic futuristic YA fantasy
SYNOPSIS: Girl in the future must decide: cheerleading or physics? Will she fall for handsome male cheerleader O'Neill, or snarky physicist McKay?
CRITIQUE: Memorable, funny, with strong characters and satisfying ending. Definitely needs a second read!!
...or they look like this:
Romantic futuristic YA fantasy
SYNOPSIS: Girl in the future must decide: cheerleading or physics?
CRITIQUE: Melodrama-laden, boring, predictable, sexist. Not what I'd want my 15 yr old reading. The romance is particularly forced -- the stereotypical blonde cheerleader has to choose between the stereotypical jock or the stereotypical geek.
Frankly, most of the reader reports tell us that the writing just isn't good enough to be competitve with the other stuff we're publishing, not to mention the stuff that's selling the best in its particular genre.
Unless someone is an author we're already working with, chances are good that a full ms. is going to get sent off to a reader. Some editors use them more than others, of course. The bare truth is that editors have a lot of freaking things to read, and those things are more important than submissions.
Yes, we value submissions. That is how we find new authors to publish. But we really do have to focus our energies on the stuff we have under contract already, the stuff we're going to use to make money for our company. Readers are really helpful as sifters. We have so many submissions -- forget the slush for a second. Just looking around my own office, I have more than twenty full manuscripts that I requested! Other editors have more (some have fewer), but either way -- I can't read all of those within a month of when I requested them and edit the five novels on my desk and do deals for two more books and -- well, etc.
Here's how the process generally works: editor requests ms., and it arrives, and she realizes that it is pretty much the worst timing ever, and she's never going to read it within even three months. However, this can right now go one of two ways: editor reads first few pages and realizes that the ms. sucks anyway, or editor reads first few pages and realizes that it might actually be good.
If it's the former, she flips through the ms. to make sure that the prose sucks all the way through, or that the characters really do stay boring -- and let me tell you, I have been doing this for more than six years already, and my first instinct is pretty much always right. Sometimes books that I've rejected get picked up by other editors and published to great success -- and yet, when I see them in bookstores and flip through them (or buy and read them)... I still dislike them and think they're bad. So make of that what you will.
If the latter happens, the editor tends to send the book to a reader. If the reader recommends a second read, the editor will read the ms.; if the reader recommends rejection, the editor will flip through to see if the reader is on target (some readers include citations in their reader reports as proof) and then... make their own decision.
My readers tend to be right on target. I've sent manuscripts to readers that I've bought, and ones that I've rejected. It isn't an indication of how interested editors are in the project -- it's an indication of how busy they are with books that are already under contract.
In general.
Your mileage may vary.
(Editors reading this, feel free to jump in with your own process.)
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(no subject)
Date: 2006-04-24 05:50 pm (UTC)So, it's a huge comfort to know that this isn't the case! (And, always interesting to read about the inner workings of an editor's day...)
(no subject)
Date: 2006-04-24 05:52 pm (UTC)Maybe that is how it works in Britain?
(no subject)
Date: 2006-04-25 04:46 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-04-25 08:21 am (UTC)"Maybe that is how it works in Britain?"
This wouldn't surprise me. British Universities are having to teach basic English (And maths) to undergraduates. Most of my colleagues are educated to degree level, yet cannot produce reports that make sense. Our customers produce technical documents that are so badly written I can't actually understand them. When I comment on grammatical errors making it hard to read, they just get the hump about it. With some of the stuff we do, it the specification isn't absolutely clear, then the software we produce isn't going to work.
I once refused to go into a shop called "Sweet Memory's" due to the abuse of the apostrophe.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-04-25 02:35 pm (UTC)We have the same problem in the States -- a lot of people don't have the basic grasp on the English language. However, we do not have that problem with our first readers, nor do we tend to have that problem with our interns, so I am not really worried. *g*
(no subject)
Date: 2006-04-25 07:50 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-04-25 08:23 pm (UTC)I think so. I don't think Memory is used as a name! (And "Sweet Memories" is a well known saying - perfect name for a Sweet Shop. There's an Indian Sweet centre in the Asian district of the city I live in called "Sweet Memories").
It's pretty common in the UK to see this sort of mistake.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-04-24 11:44 pm (UTC)I must admit that I find myself resenting the notion that students-as-readers = illiterates-as-readers. Yes, I'm guilty of generalizing about undergrads, especially first-years, but on the whole I would imagine that most students who would be willing to read mss. would have, at the very least, a strong grasp of what appeals to them as readers, if not as writers.
But I'm making a random assumption based on your summary of a text I've never seen, so feel free to totally ignore me.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-04-25 05:13 am (UTC)http://www.kingsfieldpublications.co.uk/rats.html
I think I might see if I can get a discussion going about it on my LJ if you want to stop by! :)
(And, I also think it's a rather large generalization that students are illerates...generalizations = bad, but when I first read this essay, I was brand new to writing and was just in shock. I'll be interested in your opinion!)
(no subject)
Date: 2006-04-24 05:52 pm (UTC)Clearly, I have the wrong idea about what I'm supposed to be doing.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-04-24 05:53 pm (UTC)A lot of it depends on the book. When I send out a fantasy novel to a reader, I almost always get two to three pages back.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-04-24 06:00 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-04-24 06:03 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-04-24 06:04 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-04-24 06:36 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-04-24 06:48 pm (UTC)Thank you so much for pointing to this!
So --- I've heard pnh say that Tor's webpage is a nightmare you are trying to wake up from. I get it. Still, do you think you could possibly have somebody log in to your web server and change the Tor Books FAQ, section 4, subsection In-house positions, second paragraph, to link to this page? Pretty please with sugar on top?
Because a couple of weeks ago I did some googling about Tor internships, wondered whether to ask here about them, found the FAQ, figured that the responsibility for them had passed to Claire Eddy, found her e-mail address, composed a nice e-mail asking about internships, thought whether I should really send it, realized that if she doesn't put her e-mail address on the webpage that talks about internships she doesn't want to get e-mail about it and you told us not to be stupid in public [--ahem--], and have been meaning to send snail mail ever since.
Now I realize that I'm not eligible--
(the way that my university works, I think I *might* be able to get a credit for an internship at Tor, but since I can't hide the fact that I'm enrolled for math, I don't think you guys would be psyched)
--and, you know, you just saved me some nail-biting while waiting for a reply.
You might possibly even be able to get this page on the first page of Google results for 'tor internships.' And hey, wouldn't that be neat!
;-)
All the best, and thanks again (whether or not you end up changing the FAQ).
- Benja
(no subject)
Date: 2006-04-25 02:48 am (UTC)You'd be surprised at how much mathematics is employed in the publishing industry.
Even if you're a math major, don't you still have General Ed requirements to fulfill, as well as your various electives?
(no subject)
Date: 2006-04-25 07:06 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-04-25 03:00 pm (UTC)I did the reverse: I have a BA and work as a system administrator in a computer science school. I'd never let my degree program control what jobs I applied for - within reason, of course. :)
(no subject)
Date: 2006-04-24 07:34 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-04-24 08:29 pm (UTC)Very good information
Date: 2006-04-24 07:48 pm (UTC)If more readers and writers understood how BOTH sides work, maybe they would realize the hard work and effort that go into publishing from each side. They'd cherish those books they buy so much more.
-Mia
Kane
Date: 2006-04-24 09:57 pm (UTC)(PS: My favorite on the album is...crap. I was going to say "Spirit Boy" but then I looked at the track listing and realized I love "Sweet Carolina Rain" and "The Chase" too. LOL
Re: Kane
Date: 2006-04-24 10:03 pm (UTC)It costs about $20 once shipping is factored in, and is well well well worth the money.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-04-25 02:43 am (UTC)It's eye-opening, reading slush. Even agented slush. Things you can't imagine anyone would let out of the house are sent out proudly, with joy. Sometimes it's agents sending the stuff, which makes you wonder. Reading slush gives you a chance to articulate what works and what doesn't, which can be really useful to your own writing. Just don't over indulge...
(no subject)
Date: 2006-04-25 04:54 pm (UTC)Confession: I am an urban woman who has worked unsuccessfully in media, lives in a metro area, and is over the age of 35. So I swear I don't want a job as your intern, but I might miss one or two of your pop references.
Oh...and by the way... chick lit leaves me cold too, with the singular exception of Isabel's Bed by Elinor Lipman, which I enjoyed for its message that not every smart and quirky woman is meant to have a job as a writer.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-04-25 04:57 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-04-25 05:32 pm (UTC)readers
Date: 2006-04-28 09:13 pm (UTC)Amanda Killgore
afkillgore@yahoo.com
Re: readers
Date: 2006-04-29 02:57 am (UTC)